As an erstwhile mod, and atheist Irish Jew who grew up in Dublin before being wooed by the bright lights of London, Deb Grant isn’t your average record collector or your average DJ. Her star has risen rapidly over the past few years as the club DJ and vocalist formerly known as Anne Frankenstein (she dropped the moniker post-pandemic when radio became her main artistic outlet) moved from London indie radio station Resonance FM, to be picked up by Jazz FM, and then taken on by BBC 6 Music to host the New Music Fix Daily with Tom Ravenscroft, son of the legendary John Peel.
Deb gravitates towards the unknown, the weird in the vast plains of music out there. For her, the quest towards oddities is fueled by musical authenticity. “Anything that was made by someone who sounds like they have no connections whatsoever to popular music, and very authentically makes the music that’s inside of them with no real thought about how it’s going to land—that’s my absolute favorite thing.”
So how did this sometime folk singer, voice-over artist, and self-confessed lover of “outsider music” come to be one of the most recognizable voices and future light entertainment legend on one of the Beeb’s most popular radio stations? In the following, we’ve managed to find out…
“The records came first. From a really young age I was really into 1960s and ‘70s mod stuff and completely obsessed with that whole era. So listening to vinyl was a part of that.”
Deb, how do you normally introduce yourself and what you do?
I’m Deb Grant, I’m a DJ, writer and broadcaster and I currently host the New Music Fix show on BBC6 Music.
Firstly, what does vinyl mean to you? Why is it important when listening to music??
I really struggle to listen to music passively. I’m not really into background music. I’m either out, listening to music in my headphones, or I’m sitting down with a record player, picking out a record and listening to it. It’s very rare that I’ll have dinner with a record playing in the background. To me, it’s an active thing.
So, listening to records is part of that. It’s like switching on the TV and watching something, or more like taking a book off the shelf—so having a record library is crucial to that too. In terms of having records to DJ with, I like the idea that I have to curate something out of a limited selection of music. I find the thought of having any possibility open to me when I’m DJing simply dull! In fact, it makes me panic a little bit. I love the concept that there’s only one or two places I can go next. I enjoy that challenge. There’s also, of course, the physicality and tactility of it as well.
In terms of your journey, was it vinyl from the beginning for you?
The records came first. From a really young age I was really into 1960s and ‘70s mod stuff and completely obsessed with that whole era. So listening to vinyl was a part of that. At the age of eleven or twelve, I had my grandad’s old record player set up in my room and borrowed some of my parent’s old records to listen to on it.
Aside from records, I was also making tapes for the car and I always enjoyed forcing people to listen to my selections. So that’s where the idea of DJing came from I guess. I was buying records from all genres and building up my collection. My friends were really into records too, especially the BritPop movement of the time, which was such a throwback to the ‘60s and ‘70s, and that was part of the reason I was so interested in it.
Was there a particular person who inspired you at that time?
My friend Owen was very close to me when it came to musical taste. We were always swapping records and were both into Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, and Leonard Cohen.
That’s quite a mature palette for someone in their very early teens—perhaps a hint of what was to come. What insider tips would you give people to find “outsider” music?
Record shops that don’t divide music purely by artists are good, and make sure you have a lot of time! Then you’ll develop an instinct, or know that a particular time period in a particular country will have interesting music. Or look out for the “DJ Oddities” or “Weird Stuff” section! Any record shop that has a section called “Weird Stuff”, that’s what I usually gravitate towards.
And what would be one of your own personal favorites that would easily sit in the “Weird Stuff” section?
The wonderfully titled Poultry In Motion by American singer, songwriter, and multi-instrumentalist Hazel Atkins. Hazel was a country music dude who made these crazy, unhinged rockabilly tracks. He had a rep for being absolutely bonkers and his music reflects that. This LP is a compilation of his early material from the 1950s through to the 1990s, and is made up of songs he wrote about chickens! You can see from the cover that he’s a rootin’ tootin’ rockabilly lunatic!
How did you first discover this very unique record?
I think a friend sent me a track of his called “The Chicken Walk,” which is on the surface a song about chickens, but it’s got very creepy, sexual undertones. Exactly what I like in a record! Ha! It’s lo-fi, outsider music and I was curious to hear more from him, and his chicken-related output in particular, so that’s what led me to that album.
“Anything that was made by someone who sounds like they have no connections whatsoever to popular music, and very authentically makes the music that’s inside of them with no real thought about how it’s going to land - that’s my absolute favorite thing.”
Are there any examples of when “outsider” meets (let’s call it) “insider” music in your collection?
I think an artist who might just inhabit that space is Eden Ahbez. He was, in essence, the original hippy. As early as the 1940s he was living outside, amongst nature, growing his own vegetables, and even ran his own commune. He had principles about how to live that were all based around the natural world.
He also wrote music, and perhaps most notably, the track “Nature Boy” for Nat King Cole. Eden had scrawled down the song on a piece of paper and handed it to Cole’s people backstage at one of his shows. Nat loved the piece and it became a big hit for him and was adopted into the canon of jazz standards. Sometime later, someone at Cole’s label realized that Ahbez hadn’t picked up his royalty for the song, and having searched Los Angeles for the writer, they eventually found him sleeping under the Hollywood sign! He only released one album under his own name, and this is it – Eden’s Island.
It’s such a dream record for me. A really chilled, slightly jazz, and folksy LP. Eden lived out his island fantasy. There are frog noises, the sound of the sea, and a lot of spoken word. On one track, he fantasizes about a day on Eden’s Isle, doing some trading in the market and falling asleep in the sun… it’s such a beautiful record. One of my absolute favorites.
And who would you class as your number one “outsider” artist?
That has to be Don Van Vliet, AKA Captain Beefheart. His music transcended jazz-rock, folk, blues, avant-garde, and just about everything in between. This record from 1976, Shiny Beast Bat Chain Puller, amongst other things, has an incredible album cover, painted by the Captain himself.
Beefheart is right up my street. He just makes fucking weird music. Some aspects of his music are so weird they’re quite unlistenable, but then he also had an ear for a melody and made other music that’s far more accessible and crossover. There are quite a few tracks on the album that are just good old rock & roll tunes. It’s probably my favorite album of his. I have a Captain Beefheart tattoo, so I’m quite committed to my love for him.
"I have a Captain Beefheart tattoo, so I’m quite committed to my love for him."
And what about your rarest, or most treasured, esoteric piece of wax?
I think that has to be Drugs Don’t Do It by War On Drugs. A super obscure, self-published, private press record from the US. I picked this up when I was in Baton Rouge. I was in a record store where everything was sealed and there were no listening stations, but this record was playing and I was thinking “what the fuck is this? I need to know what this is!” I was also intrigued by the blurb on the back of the LP that goes into all these details about how drugs are a scourge of US culture. I often play it out and people will ask me what it is without fail. It’s a really gentle Afrobeat track with sort of rapping over the top of it and also lots of airplane noises. It’s got pretty much everything! And no, it’s not that War On Drugs, obviously.
Talking of rapping, I know you have a penchant for early hip-hop, disco-rap, and electro. Is there a standout record in your collection from that genre?
Seeing as you mentioned electro, I’d have to say Stone Killers by Prince Charles & The City Beat Band. It’s a very early electro record from 1982 courtesy of an outfit that recorded three albums on Virgin Records from the early to mid-1980s and achieved their biggest successes on the European charts. Prince Charles Alexander fronted the group as the lead singer and multi-instrumentalist, with a focus on a mad wind synthesizer called the “Lyricon“ in recordings and in his live performances.
It’s just an awesome record—oh my god it’s incredible! It hits a real sweet spot for me. I love early-1980s electro music and it’s also really funky, there’s rapping on it and stuff. There are so many tracks on it that are especially amazing to me as they were created without using samplers. There’s a track on it called “Bush Beat”, which sounds contemporary and is over-dubbed with the sound of dogs howling. It’s top to bottom, such a good record. I heard “Bush Beat” on a compilation and had to go and dig out his other stuff. I found this record very cheaply for just a few quid. I’m a fan of very early hip-hop and this just fits in with that aesthetic.
Your work, especially as a radio DJ, is increasingly taking you around the globe. What might be the most random or “out there” purchase you’ve made in a far-flung country?
That could very well be Jazz Dance: Introductory by Mari Tachikawa. It’s a recording of exercise instructions and gentle jazz. It’s basically a woman giving out instructions in this soft voice in Japanese while this mellow jazz plays in the background. I picked it up when I was in Japan (for the first time) a few years ago. Japan is a somewhat overwhelming place for buying vinyl. There are so many records that are from Japan that just look amazing, but there’s no indication of what they are. I made the mistake when I was in Tokyo of picking up a load of random vinyl I thought would sound amazing and then bringing them home and that was simply not the case! But fortunately, this was one record that didn’t disappoint. I think it was in the “Exercise Jazz” section in a little niche record shop, ha!
Have you put it on and done the exercises?
Well unfortunately I don’t understand Japanese, but it’s great to listen to. It’s an exercise of the mind!
Dust & Grooves: Further Adventures in Record Collecting – Deluxe Slipcase First Limited Edition
"I had the chance to meet him [Manu Dibango] before he died, and he was like this lovely warm grandad. I said to him, 'I love your music so much, but I have this album of yours of piano melodies' and his response was 'that’s one of the worst albums I ever made!'"
Radio must also have put you in the same room as your idols in recent years. Is there a record in your collection that connects a particular meeting that stands out in your mind?
I would have to say Solo Piano Volume Two by Cameroonian legend Manu Dibango. I picked it up when I was working at Flashback Records in Shoreditch, East London. I was already a fan and he’s obviously very well known for his funky Afro-jazz material, and I already really loved him for that, but I really gravitate towards solo piano music, so this was a perfect meeting of those two things for me. I put it on the deck (at the shop), listened to it, and was completely blown away. It’s so stunning! He’s not known as a piano player, but he’s such a great pianist and these are such gorgeous simple tunes, put together so beautifully. It’s probably one of my favorite records of all time.
And yes, I had the chance to meet him before he died, and he was like this lovely warm grandad. I said to him, “I love your music so much, but I have this album of yours of piano melodies” and his response was “that’s one of the worst albums I ever made!”
Again, this is you looking outside of what people generally go for! Giving records a chance that other people might pass over.
My ear is particularly tuned towards radio rather than the dance floor as I can give an introduction to why I like it and why it’s worth listening to. I’m more into the idea of allowing people to spend a quiet moment with a song that I love rather than building up an atmosphere in a club.
Being brought up in a Jewish household in Ireland, do you find yourself drawn towards religious music within your outsider remit?
Yes, I suppose so. I am an atheist but culturally I find religious music interesting—the reason I would have an interest in religious music is because I feel that it comes from a very pure place. Music like gospel is made out of a need to make music to uplift your soul, so if I do have an interest in religious music in particular then that’s why, because the intention behind it being made is authentic.
Is there a favorite on your shelves that draws from a religious or spiritual foundation?Definitely this eponymous album by Emahoy Tsegué-Maryam Guèbrou, an Ethiopian piano-playing and singing nun! This is a recent compilation of some of her music. You can call it religious music, jazz, classical almost in a way—it’s almost completely undefinable.
“My ear is particularly tuned towards radio rather than the dance floor … I’m more into the idea of allowing people to spend a quiet moment with a song that I love rather than building up an atmosphere in a club.”
Someone sent it to me as they knew I do tend to seek out solo piano music. I love classical piano music, especially Chopin and Liszt; in terms of jazz, I love Bill Evans, and Oscar Peterson but there is nothing that sounds like this record. There is something so visceral and vivid about it, it’s almost like it puts you in a montage of your own life. It pushes all of the emotional buttons for me. It’s incredible music.
I have noticed a smattering of compilations on your shelves. What do you feel their place is in a “serious” record collection and do you feel the snobbery around them is justified?
I love compilations in the context of DJing. I know there’s a real stigma if you’re a deep vinyl collector and you’re playing compilations. It’s viewed as a bit of a cop out, but it’s such a resourceful way of DJing—records are really heavy! And in terms of listening, compilations have introduced me to loads of great music. Some record labels work really hard to put them together with music that would otherwise not be heard! So I’m not too proud to enjoy a compilation, no way!
Is there a particular compilation that helped steer your musical journey?
Hot Shit – Sonik Mook Experiment, a classic compilation from a legendary club night in Islington, North London of the same name, which focused on weird electro, industrial, and punk, and which I never got to go to because it was happening in the late-1990s before I came to London!
I grew up in Ireland and moved to London when I was just nineteen, and had this idea of the capital being this incredible hotbed for all of these amazing club nights like Trash, Nag Nag Nag, and so on. I was also big into electroclash and I really, honestly thought that it was the youth movement of the future! I know, I know, I was young and foolish! Sonic Mook Experiment was a real aspirational thing for me and this record represents a period of record buying when I was a teenager and all I could think about was that I needed to get to London!
“I love compilations in the context of DJing. I know there’s a real stigma if you’re a deep vinyl collector and you’re playing compilations … but it’s such a resourceful way of DJing—records are really heavy!”
We’ve spent a lot of time digging deep into old, obscure records in your collection, but as a DJ who spends a lot of their time listening to new music, what are the standout contemporary LPs currently receiving repeated plays in Chez Grant?
One has to be More Elevator Music by trumpeter, producer, composer, and sometime rapper Leron Thomas. This was sent to me by the record label. It’s rare that a contemporary record will catch my attention as this one did, but it’s so weird—it sounds like something I might come across when digging for older stuff to play on the radio. Leron takes influences from all kinds of different places, from Frank Zappa to more funky stuff like Parliament, and he’s worked with people like Erykah Badu and Meshell Ndegeocello! It’s amazing to me when you can hear a new record that pulls in influences from all sorts of musical spaces but doesn’t sound derivative in any way. I think that’s a great achievement. The second track on it features Iggy Pop and it’s got a bizarre cover version of one of my favorite Kid Creole & The Coconuts tracks, which is “Endicott”. It’s been a solid favorite of mine since I first heard it, I think it’s incredible.
Another is Pigna, the debut album from Yarni, an electronic music producer based in Sheffield who collaborates with live musicians. It’s a contemporary, beatsy jazz album but very multi-layered and complex—full of interesting rhythms and melodies. It’s hard to believe that it all comes from this one guy!
Again, it’s rare that something contemporary will catch my ear in a big way, but I think that what he does is amazing. It works for both casual listening and in clubs. I’m really excited by everything I hear from him!
I know that as well as having eclectic musical knowledge, you’re quite the film buff. Is there a record you discovered that first marked the place where these two loves of your life first connected?
Definitely the soundtrack to the late-1970s film Quadrophenia! Half of the tracks are written and performed by The Who (on one record) with the other half made up of classic 1960s tracks like Booker T & The MGs’ “Green Onions”, “He’s So Fine” by The Chiffons, “Louie Louie” by The Kingsmen and other ‘60s tracks like that. That part of the LP is music used in the film when they go to a lot of parties and have a lot of fun!
Did you watch the film or hear the soundtrack first?
I saw the film first. When I was growing up, I was completely obsessed with the 1960s mod scene and Quadrophenia was something I’d heard about through that. I watched it when I was about thirteen and then picked up the vinyl at a record fair, having watched the film about ten times with my best friend who was also a mod obsessive. I started DJing when I was fifteen, using that LP and as you can see, it’s completely trashed—there’s no spine left and it probably doesn’t even play anymore! It’s a real, emotional connection to my early days though.
Finally, is there a record collector or DJ you’d like to see be part of Dust & Grooves?
WrongTom. A DJ and dub reggae producer, radio presenter, and journalist. He’s a bit of a dub legend with an amazing record collection and incredible musical knowledge. He’s like a one-man musical encyclopedia! Tom is a dub producer but what he works on goes way outside of that scene from indie to pop to jazz to punk—just the way I like it!
Deb Grant is a Manchester-based DJ, known for being the presenter of New Music Fix Daily on BBC 6 Music with Tom Ravenscroft.
1 Comment
AXEL KÜSTNER
Yeah, I went to see Hasil "The Haze" Adkins at his home near Uneeda, West Virginia, a few times during the 1990s. Hasil could be pretty crazy & out of control (with too much alcohol) but the first time I visited him in May 1990 with my friend Birney Imes of Columbus, Miss., Hasil acted rather shy & nothing like the wild man he is usually portraied. It's a rough world up there where he lived in that tar paper shack (later a mobile home). I am into Blues & I was amazed that on our first meeting he asked me to send him tapes of Blind Boy Fuller & Piano Red! In May 1991 I took a photo of him that's on the back of his album "Look At That Caveman Go!!" (Norton Records ED-232). This picture was taken the morning before we took off on a short tour with Southern Culture On The Skids. He was a true American Original! Axel Küstner aka POÄX aka HOTWÄXÄX, Subecksweg 29, D-37581 Bad Gandersheim, Germany.